DELPHI, Ind. — It's been more than seven years since the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were found near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Richard Allen, the man accused of killing the two teenagers, will stand trial for the fifth day Wednesday.
The trial began Friday, Oct. 18.
Sixteen Allen County residents were selected to serve on the jury. Twelve of those people (eight women and four men) began the trial as jurors with four (two men and two women) serving as alternates.
From opening statements to verdict, 13News will be at the Carroll County courthouse every day of the trial to explain what happened inside the courtroom.
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- RELATED: Here's what has happened so far in the Delphi murders trial
Follow along with the latest updates from Wednesday below:
State's 20th witness: Indiana State Police Sgt. Christopher Cecil
1 p.m. - The state's 20th witness is Indiana State Police Sergeant Christopher Cecil, a 20-year law enforcement officer and the commander of the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.
Cecil reanalyzed Libby's cellphone and SIM card in 2019.
Cecil said that ISP got a Grey Key device in 2019. That allowed them to unlock Apple devices like iPhones. Cecil says that after getting the Graykey, ISP re-examined Libby's iPhone.
Cecil said they performed a full file extraction to get all of the phone's content. That included active and deleted files and metadata.
Cecil said the data was ingested into a program like Cellebrite to make it readable.
Cecil said he performed a detail analysis on Libby's phone data between June 26 and Aug. 21, 2019.
Cecil said he specifically looked at data from Feb. 13, 2017.
Cecil said his goal was to establish a timeline of how the phone was being used and what was happening in the background.
Cecil said two people were using the phone: Abby and Libby.
The touch ID had six fingerprints saved.
Using the phone's health app, Cecil said he determined the girls walked about 700 meters between 1:31 p.m. and 2:08 p.m. on Feb. 13.
Cecil said the phone stopped moving at 2:32 p.m. on Feb. 13.
Cecil said there is something called "Knowledge(C)" data that logs things you don't know are being logged. He said that before 2019, the data extraction community didn't know about Knowledge(C). Cecil said that Graykey is the first equipment to pull the Knowledge(C) data.
Cecil presented a timeline of activity on Libby's phone on that day:
- 1:41:44 p.m. - A picture was posted to Snapchat
- 1:43:59 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat
- 2:05:10 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat of the Monon High Bridge
- 2:07:20 p.m. - Last time the phone was unlocked
- 2:13:51 p.m. - Video recorded showing Abby walking across the Monon High Bridge with someone behind her
- 2:14:41 p.m. - Someone tries to unlock the phone
- 2:32:39 p.m. - Last movement of phone
- 10:32:06 p.m. - Last signal from phone
In 2019, Cecil provided this report to investigators.
Cecil said that by 2024, the programs he had used to read the data had been updated. Cecil used it to reprocess the raw data he had first looked at in 2019.
Cecil said the review didn't change the data he had before, but it did add more. He said his new analysis took place between May 10 and Aug. 18 of 2024.
Cecil showed the jury a list of things Knowledge(C) data tracks. Cecil told the jury the data is volatile and can be deleted unpredictably. Knowledge(C) tracks when the device is used but doesn't show pictures or video.
Cecil said that pictures or videos on the phone's camera roll would not be deleted when the phone is turned on or off using Knowledge(C).
The second analysis provided Cecil with information going back to 11 a.m. that day. Cecil told the jury that users get to choose which apps track location data.
Carroll County prosecutor Nick McLeland asked Cecil how accurate location is on a phone.
"For GPS, it is very good," Cecil said.
Cecil showed that the data tracking on the video of the bridge showed the location of Libby's phone being by Delphi High School, then snapping back to the trail within 4 seconds. Cecil said that the longer the video went, the more accurate the GPS data became.
Cecil said that Libby had location data turned on when she was using Snapchat.
Cecil said as battery life went down, the phone would close more quickly and worked more slowly.
Cecil said the phone stayed on until 4:30 a.m. on Feb. 14, 2017. It received a bunch of SMS messages around 4:33 a.m.
Cecil said there was no indication the phone turned off between the last time it moved at 2:32 p.m. on Feb. 13 and 4:33 a.m. the next day.
At 4:06 p.m., the phone received a text from Becky Patty, Libby's grandmother, that read, "You need to call me now!!!"
At 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14, between 15 and 20 messages came to the phone all at once.
McLeland asked, "Why the gap in time?"
"I don't know," Cecil answered.
The phone's last activity was at 4:34 a.m. on Feb. 14. At 3:06 a.m. on Feb. 15, it was turned on by investigator Brian Bunner.
State's 19th witness: Dr. Roland Kohr, who performed the autopsies
Editor's Note - The following testimony is graphic and may be upsetting to read.
12:15 p.m. - Defense attorney Brad Rozzi performed the cross-examination.
Rozzi said that during deposition on Feb. 27, 2024, Kohr said the girls had been dead between 24 and 48 hours.
Kohr said that the biggest challenge they face in forensics is determining the time of death. Kohr said he didn't see crime scene photos until 2024 and couldn't determine the time of death based on the photos.
Rozzi said that Kohr couldn't say anything definitive about the type of blade used to kill her during deposition.
Rozzi quoted Kohr as having said "anything from a pocket knife to a kitchen knife."
Rozzi then asked if the 5-10 minutes it would take to die from the cuts would have given Abby time to react. Rozzi mentioned running or screaming. Rozzi noted Abby's trachea was intact.
Rozzi noted that Kohr could not tell if the person who cut either girl was left- or right-handed.
Rozzi said Kohr used the word "serrated" twice in the autopsy report. He asked Kohr if more than one weapon could have been used, since the markings only appear on one wound.
Rozzi said Kohr said it might have taken up to 20 minutes for Abby to die during deposition.
Rozzi suggested she might have been drug from another location based on "debris on" on Libby's legs.
Kohr said yes.
Rozzi repeated Kohr's statement that, after his deposition, he kept thinking about the case.
"I said they weren't classic serrations," Kohr said. "I was unsettled because they weren't classic serrations. So what could have caused these marks?"
Rozzi asked if Kohr called Rozzi back after changing his mind.
Kohr said, "No."
Rozzi asked if Kohr spoke with the prosecution.
Kohr said, "Yes."
Rozzi said that Kohr couldn't definitively say a box cutter was used.
Kohr agreed he could not definitively.
Kohr said a supplemental report would be speculative not definitive.
"Either way," Rozzi said. "It's all speculation."
During redirect, Luttrell asked what was the minimum number of knives used to cause all the wounds.
Kohr said one. Kohr said just because it was different marks doesn't mean it was a different instrument.
Libby's mother and at least one member of the jury were visibly emotional by the autopsy photos. Libby's mother cried. The juror held his head in his hands.
11:26 a.m. - Kohr's testimony resumes with a diagram showing the major vessels and veins in the neck and where Abby and Libby's throats were cut.
Per the diagram, both of Libby's carotid arteries were severed. Her left jugular vein was also severed.
Abby's jugular vein was only partially severed on her left side. She did not have cuts on her right side.
The jury was shown photos of Abby's body, including a gaping wound on her neck. Kohr said the cut was clean on the left end, but there was more skin damage on the right side. Kohr said the cut was likely made right to left, and was maybe an inch deep.
Kohr noted a faint reddish mark between the chin and lower lip and under the chin below the mouth.
Abby's body also showed livor mortis. This is when blood settles in the lowest part of the body after death because the heart is no longer moving it. Abby's body showed livor mortis on her upper back and the backs of her legs, which had a purple color.
"(Abby) had been laying on her back for long periods of time" after her death, Kohr said.
Kohr estimated Abby would have had to have been in the position for at least eight hours to have the permanent livor mortis.
Kohr said Libby's body exhibited no sexual trauma and had no defensive wounds.
Libby had four wounds on her neck, and possibly a fifth. Kohr said two of the wounds overlap so that, at first, it looks like she only has three.
In the photos of Libby's body, there are paper bags over her hands. Kohr said this was to protect potential evidence that may have been under her fingernails.
With an image of the wounds, Kohr said the overlapping injuries may have been created by a "second pass" that got "off track."
Libby also had a few small abrasions below her neck.
Kohr said it would take two passes to create the x-like pattern in the largest wound.
Kohr said pulling away while getting cut could change patterns.
Kohr said their were five marks near the edge of the wound on the right side of Libby's neck.
Kohr said he initially thought the wound was caused by a serrated knife. But Kohr said he thought more about it in the "last few months" while preparing for the trial. Kohr said he now feels it is more abrasions from something other than a serrated edge.
During deposition with defense attorney Brad Rozzi, Kohr said the marks were not typical serrations but were serration-like.
Kohr told the jury he happened to have a box cutter on his work bench. He said it has several parallel lines for the thumb grip. Kohr said the more he thought about it, he thought the marks could be from the side of a box cutter.
Prosecuting attorney Jim Luttrell asked Kohr what the body would do when it gets a wound like Abby's.
Kohr said the bleeding would not be under pressure, so it would be slower and would happen over several minutes. Kohr said as the blood volume drops significantly, the body will go into shock, and organs will lose function.
Kohr said a person would lose consciousness but not die right away.
Kohr said it is hard to tell how long it would take to have died. If someone sat still, it would take longer to lose a fatal amount of blood, at least 5 to 10 minutes or possibly longer. Kohr said laying down would go faster than standing up.
Kohr said Libby's wounds would have caused faster blood loss. Arteries are under pressure, so they bleed out faster.
Kohr said there was blood on Libby's hands. He said that might have come from trying to stop the bleeding. Kohr imitated pressing his hands to a wound in his neck.
Kohr gave a "crude estimate" of 5 to 10 minutes for Libby to die, but said it may be closer to 5 minutes.
Kohr said he could not give a precise time of death for the girls.
Luttrell asked if their bodies were consistent with dying 41 hours before the autopsy.
Kohr said, "Yes."
10:07 a.m. - Semi-retired pathologist Dr. Roland Kohr, who still performs some autopsies, testified.
Kohr said he has performed between 7,700 and 7,800 autopsies over his career.
Kohr said he was called on Feb. 14, 2017, to perform the autopsies, which he did on Feb. 15, 2017.
Kohr will continue showing images from the autopsies after court returns from break.
State's 18th witness: Sarah Carbaugh, saw "bridge guy"
9:50 a.m. - Prosecuting attorney Stacey Diener began her redirect.
Diener asked Carbaugh if the person she saw had a tan sweater. Carbaugh said, "Yes."
Diener asked if the "bridge guy" had a hat. Carbaugh said the hat stood out to her and that it looked "funky."
Carbaugh said she saw the bottom of the man's ears but said her mind was "tainted" when it comes to the hat.
Carbaugh said the man was "hunched up" with his "hands in his pockets the entire time."
Diener said the last hour to half hour of Carbaugh's second interview, in 2017, is missing. Carbaugh agreed and said she discussed the blood in the missing portion of the interview.
The prosecution brought up the enhanced photo of "bridge guy" taken on Libby's phone and highlighted areas marked as "mud" and "blood."
"He was caked so much," Carbaugh said. "He had to be right down by the river."
In the cross-redirect, Baldwin asked Carbaugh again if she said mud 13 times in the interview.
"Are we doing this again?" Carbaugh asked.
"Yes we are," Baldwin answered.
Baldwin asked how old she was at the time. Carbaugh answered that she is 35 now and was maybe 26 when the murders happened.
Baldwin asked her why she thought she saw blood splatter, and Carbaugh said it was because she saw blood splatter.
Baldwin asked how obvious the blood was. Carbaugh said the white-washed jeans made it more obvious.
In a confrontational series of questions, Baldwin asked how close Carbaugh was to the man when she passed, which she responded with less than three feet.
Baldwin said she had said 20 feet before. Carbaugh said she didn't have a tape measure her with her. Baldwin said that doesn't excuse her from a subpoena.
9:30 a.m. - Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin began the cross-examination of Carbaugh.
Baldwin said that Carbaugh never mentioned blood in her first interviews with police. Baldwin said "blood" does not appear in the transcript of the interview.
Carbaugh said she thought she said it once in the first interview. Baldwin said she used "mud" 13 times but never blood.
Carbaugh said there has been at least an hour of her interview she hasn't been able to watch.
Baldwin said she didn't mention it in the second interview either and provided her with both transcripts. Carbaugh said she saw nothing in the transcript mentioning blood, but said she did mention it to the officer.
Baldwin said she also didn't mention blood in her third interview either. Baldwin said Carbaugh didn't mention it until 2019.
"I think I said mud and blood," Carbaugh said.
"You said it looked like a hog had been slaughtered," Baldwin said.
Baldwin then asked if she stopped to help the "bridge guy."
"I am a woman," Carbaugh said. "I am not going to stop and help a random man."
Baldwin said Carbaugh described the man as wearing a tan coat in the first interview, then changed it to blue in the second interview.
"In my first interview, I did describe the color of the coat wrong," Carbaugh said. "Outside of this testimony, I want nothing to do with this."
Baldwin said that Carbaugh asked not to be shown a photo during her interview but was shown anyway. He said the officer kept the photo out throughout the interview.
Baldwin said that during the interview, Carbaugh said the "bridge guy" had curly hair and "very feminine" eyes.
A visibly upset Carbaugh denied saying the "bridge guy" had feminine eyes.
Carbaugh said she saw the "bridge guy" for less than a minute.
"Wearing extreme amount of layers for a warm day and just being weird," Carbaugh said.
9:12 a.m. - Lifelong Delphi resident Sarah Carbaugh takes the stand for the state.
Carbaugh described herself "as local as you can get."
Carbaugh she visited the trail almost every day with her dogs.
Carbaugh said she uses the Mears entrance to the trail, the same as the girls used when they were dropped of on Feb. 13, 2017. Carbaugh says you can park four cars across at the entrance.
Carbaugh said she crossed the Monon High Bridge at least three times as a child.
Carbaugh said she heard the Amber Alert for Abby and Libby when it was issued and drove by the Mears entrance three times.
She said around 4 p.m. that day, Carbaugh saw a group of people near the entrance. She said that included at least one person who was blonde, wearing a pink sweatshirt, and looking stressed out.
"I saw a man covered in mud and blood walking on the side of the road," Carbaugh said.
Carbaugh said she did not recognize the man but that he made eye contact with her. This was before she learned the girls were missing.
Carbaugh labeled where she saw the man on a map as the "bridge guy." She also said she recognized the bridge guy as the "man covered in mud and blood walking on the side of the road."
Carbaugh described the man's demeanor as "very sketchy."
She said the man had mud on his legs and blood further down. Carbaugh said she thought the man fell down a cliff and was injured. Carbaugh said she had the glow of the sun behind her as she drove to the east.
"I am very traumatized by anything murder-related," Carbaugh said.
Carbaugh told the jury she waited three weeks to tell police what she saw. She said she told herself she had to be brave.
Carbaugh said the murders "turned the entire town and everyone in it upside down."
8:50 a.m. - The attorneys for Richard Allen have filed a motion to admit evidence from the crime scene they believe is connected to Odinism, Norse Paganism and a ritualistic killing.
Allen's attorneys are citing testimony from one of the state's witnesses, Indiana State Police crime scene investigator Brian Olehy, who said the sticks over the bodies of Abby and Libby were meant to hide their bodies.
"They appeared to be placed there by an individual," Olehy said, noting it seemed to be an "attempt at concealment" but "they were not completely covered."
The defense also wants to allow testimony from Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, who is an expert on Odinism.
The attorneys argue that blocking the Odinism theory and explanation would violate Allen's constitutional right to provide alternative explanations to the ones the state plans to present in the case.
6:30 a.m. - The fifth day of the trial is expected to begin at 9 a.m.