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Jury begins deliberation | Day 18 & 19 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

DELPHI, Ind. โ€” It's been over seven years since the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were found near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Richard Allen, the man accused of killing the two teenagers, will stand trial for the 19th day Friday, Nov. 8.

The trial began Friday, Oct. 18. 

Sixteen Allen County residents were selected to serve on the jury. Twelve of those people (eight women and four men) began the trial as jurors with four (two men and two women) serving as alternates. 

From opening statements to verdict, 13News will be at the Carroll County courthouse every day of the trial to explain what happened inside the courtroom.

According to instructions, they will deliberate from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Saturday, until they reach a verdict. 

Follow along with the latest updates from Thursday and Friday below:

RELATED: Defense rests its case in trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen; state recalls witnesses | Day 17

RELATED: Here's what has happened so far in the Delphi murders trial

Day 19

There was no verdict today. On the first full day of deliberations, jurors arrived around 8:55 a.m. and left the courthouse at 3:50 p.m. Counting yesterday and today, thatโ€™s roughly nine hours of deliberation time so far.

13News senior investigative reporter Bob Segall, who was in the courtroom, said a lot of people he spoke to outside the courthouse expected a verdict todayโ€”especially since itโ€™s Friday and the assumption is the sequestered jurors want to reunite with their families in time for the weekend. However, he said itโ€™s just not that simple since there's so much evidence to review.

The multiple timelines the jury has to review include the time of the murders versus the witness statements and forensic data, the dates of the confessions versus the dates of Richard Allen's mental health diagnosis and 100% opposite testimony from the state and defense experts on ballistics and Allen's mental health. 

Segall said that complexity, combined with the jury's demonstrated curiosity and willingness to ask lots of questions, suggests the deliberations could last several more days. 

The jury can ask to review evidence. Segall said the jurors didn't get to listen to "bridge guy's" "down the hill" statement side-by-side with Allen's voice during his interrogations. Segall said they could ask to do that andโ€”if that happensโ€”Allen, his attorneys and the prosecutors will be allowed to be in the courtroom while jurors revisit evidence and testimony. So if Allen arrives at the courthouse in the coming days, it's not necessarily a sign that jurors reached a verdict.

Segall said once jurors have a decision, it will likely be 90-120 minutes before itโ€™s read in court. Allen is 30 minutes away at the Cass County Jail. He and other people must arrive, and more security measures must be implemented, before a verdict is announced.

The jury will restart deliberations Saturday morning at 9 a.m. If there is no verdict by Saturday night, jurors will get an off day on Sunday before resuming discussions Monday morning. Judge Gull said a few days ago that everyone needs a rest on Sunday.

Day 18

The jury begins deliberation

The jury has ended deliberation for the day and will return Friday morning. 

The jury has begun deliberating on the case. According to instructions, they will deliberate from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., Monday through Saturday, until they reach a verdict. 

The defense makes its closing argument

12:16 p.m. - Defense attorney Brad Rozzi delivered the defense's closing arguments. 

Rozzi pointed out that the trial has taken almost a month, with 17 days of testimony. 

"The defense trusts what you've heard over the past several weeks is more important than what you're hearing today," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi outlined four main issues with the state's case: 

  • Broken timeline
  • Bumbled ballistics
  • False confessions
  • Digital forensics data

Rozzi said the prosecution never did a height analysis to match Allen with "bridge guy." 

Rozzi said the state lost hours of interview video. 

Rozzi said the prosecution didn't search to see what Ford Focuses were in the county at the time until the middle of the trial. 

Rozzi then talked about what witnesses said about "bridge guy." Rozzi said Betsey Blair described "bridge guy" as "youthful, boyish and not short." 

Rozzi attacked the testimony of Sarah Carbaugh, who initially told police she saw "bridge guy" in a tan jacket and covered in mud, but changed her testimony to say he had a darker jacket and was covered in blood. 

"She too did not tell the whole story until cross-examination," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi told the jury they are the judge of credibility. 

"You may discount the testimony of a witness altogether," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said when the jury receives testimony that is preposterous and too hard to believe, jurors should discount it all together. 

Rozzi said that the state tried to put Allen on a route in Feb. 13, 2017 that was the best fit for them. 

Rozzi told the jury to look at the interrogation videos and how Allen handled himself in them. 

Rozzi said the Indiana State Police Lab couldn't exclude Brad Weber's gun as being the one that cycled the round found by the girl's bodies. 

Rozzi showed the jury photos of Weber's garage with sticks and Weber's statement to police that he didn't go straight home the day of the murders. 

Rozzi said that Richard Allen made three confession calls on April 3, 2023, but the state only played two of them. 

"Why not offer up context to you?" Rozzi asked. "Why not tell the whole story?" 

Rozzi said Allen was in a Westville Correctional Facility cell for 13 months. Rozzi said all the state wanted to talk about was what Allen said, not how he was. 

"You must ask yourself, why they wouldn't want you to see the truth?" Rozzi asked. 

Rozzi said Allen was only arrested because of the "magic bullet," and that the state tried to use it as leverage against Allen. 

Rozzi said the state asked the jury to just believe the witness who testified the cartridge at the scene matched Allen's gun. 

Rozzi said the state didn't tell the jury that someone plugged a headphone into Libby's phone between 5:45 p.m. and 10:32 p.m. the day the girls died. 

"You should question the credibility of this investigation," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said it shows "desperation" on the part of the state. 

Rozzi said the state is recently adding details to its case, like fitting Weber's van into the timeline without showing the same interview. 

Rozzi said the state waited until just before the trial before testing the strand of hair found in Abby's hand. 

Rozzi said there was no proof Allen was the one that searched for topics in October 2022. 

Rozzi said that between his deposition and the trial, state's witness Dr. Roland Kohr "magically" came up with the idea that a box cutter killed the girls. Rozzi said Kohr met with the prosecution three times after the defense deposed him. 

Rozzi played the "bridge guy" video and said the jury would not be unreasonable if they decided "I don't know if (Carbaugh) saw anything." 

Rozzi said the witness testimony is "not consistent with 5'5" Richard Allen." 

Rozzi talked about the overlapping witnesses who saw and heard nothing when the killings allegedly happened. 

Rozzi said the state has ignored and doesn't want to talk about the possibility of multiple actors involved in the killings.

Rozzi said a law enforcement officer said at one point, police did suspect multiple people. 

Rozzi said the state believes that Allen killed one girl while controlling and then killing the other, redressed the girls and covered their bodies. Rozzi said the state wants jurors to believe 5'5" Allen did that all by himself. 

Rozzi said that during jury selection, jurors were told to "exercise your common sense." 

"Now is the time to exercise your common sense," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said that Allen called law enforcement himself to say he was at the bridge. Rozzi said the officer who interviewed him soon after found "nothing unusual." 

Rozzi said even when police lied to Allen in 2022, he maintained his innocence. 

Rozzi said the state wants jurors to believe a change of tone is evidence of guilt. Rozzi called that nonsense. Rozzi said that if the state is bearing down on you and falsely accusing you of murder, you would respond the same way Allen did. 

Rozzi said Allen lived in Delphi for five years after the murders. Rozzi said Allen didn't flee because he didn't do it. 

Rozzi said the "magic bullet" evidence was bad, too. He said when police first got Allen's gun, they cycled rounds four to six times in a row, and still didn't get marks sufficient to judge if they were similar to the bullet by the girls' bodies. 

Rozzi said the tech did an "apples to oranges" comparison by comparing a bullet fired from Allen's gun to the unfired one found at the scene. 

Rozzi said the photos of the marks should cause the jurors concern and consternation. 

"Where the hell are the sufficient agreements?" Rozzi asked. He asked where the marks were supposed to match up. 

"Use your eyes," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said the matching marks were subclass characteristics and "an example of why this is a dangerous business." 

"This is a subjective game," Rozzi said. He told jurors the witness told them "you should just believe me." 

When the jury asked why the defense didn't do their own ballistics testing, Rozzi said the state's ballistics was so poor, the defense didn't think they needed their own ballistics to overturn it. 

Rozzi then tackled the issue of the "false confessions." 

Rozzi said that Allen was kept in unprecedented conditions for a pretrial detainee. Rozzi described Allen's cell as the most secure unit in Indiana. Rozzi said Allen was treated like the convicted rapists and murderers in the prison. 

Rozzi said that no human, no matter how strong, could be in those conditions for that long without having a breakdown. 

Rozzi said Allen never saw the recreation units at the prison, only a small outdoor cage. 

"Solitary confinement is damaging to a man or woman's brain," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said the state violated their 30-day maximum for a mentally ill detainee in solitary confinement. 

"When the dust settled, he was there for 13 months," Rozzi said. "How much can one human endure?" 

Rozzi said the state didn't want the jury to see the conditions Allen was in at the prison. 

Rozzi said the state cherry-picked, saying Allen was psychotic on the 13th so they played a confession from the 14th instead. 

Rozzi said the truth was that Allen was psychotic and being stuck with a needle the entire time. 

Rozzi said prison psychologist Dr. John Martin changed his mind on the witness stand, agreeing that Allen was psychotic. 

"Who could believe (Allen) was oriented to time and place," Martin said. 

Rozzi said that false memories start out as false beliefs. Rozzi told the jury to listen to what Allen actually said in his confessions: 

  • "I did it." 
  • "Maybe I did it." 
  • "I think I did it." 
  • "I think I did." 
  • "I don't know."

Rozzi said those were all false beliefs. 

Rozzi also said the data on the phone should make the jury question the state's case. He held up a sign with these times: 

  • 5:45 p.m. 
  • 10:32 p.m. 
  • 4:33 a.m.

The first is when Libby's phone said a headphone was plugged in. The second is when the phone says the headphone was removed. The last is when Libby's phone connected to a cellphone tower after hours of being disconnected. 

Rozzi said the phone has no feelings, emotions or opinions. Rozzi said it just has raw data that speaks for itself. 

"The phone is right," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi asked if it was ironic that Brad Weber didn't go straight home, had sticks in his driveway and the state couldn't rule out his gun. 

Rozzi said the state wanted the jury to see all of the knives and box cutters at Allen's home. But Rozzi said there was no DNA evidence linking any of them to the murders. 

Rozzi said Allen's confession from Allen was manipulated. He said Dr. Monica Wala's version reads like a story but that Allen was psychotic and couldn't put together a logical story. Rozzi said Wala was "infatuated" with the Delphi murders case. 

Rozzi said the 'bridge guy" was walking on the bridge and that witnesses saw him waiting and standing on a platform. 

Rozzi said the state tried to convince the jury, without evidence, that Allen was an alcoholic. 

Rozzi said the fact that people searching in the area didn't find the girls the night of Feb. 13 raises the question of whether the bodies were actually there when the scene was searched. 

Rozzi also mocked the state's reliance on Allen owning a blue Carhartt jacket.

"There's a revelation for you," Rozzi said. "A blue Carhartt jacket in a closet in Delphi, Indiana." 

Rozzi said that Allen was alone in an 8' by 10' cell for months. 

"Do you blame him for picking up a Bible?" Rozzi asked. 

 Rozzi called the state's witness a mindreader for knowing the "bridge guy" voice was Allen's. Rozzi said dozens of people called to say they recognized the voice. 

"No one identified Richard Allen as the man on that bridge," Rozzi said. 

Rozzi said no digital data, fingerprint, DNA, trace material or forensic evidence ties Allen to the scene. 

"At the end of the day, the state's timeline is crumbled," Rozzi said. "The magic bullet is nothing but a tragic bullet." 

Rozzi repeated that the times are unexplained. 

Rozzi showed the jury a picture of medieval racks and thumbscrews used to torture people. Rozzi said as a society, we have evolved into other forms of interrogation, like putting someone in a cell in solitary and throwing away the key. 

"Someone should have spoken up," Rozzi said. "Somethings wrong here. Something's not right." 

"Where's the moral compass?" Rozzi asked. Then, he told the jury, "You're the moral compass." 

Rozzi showed the jury photos of Allen in prison. Then, he showed them a picture of a python wrapped around a rodent. 

"That is the power of the state," Rozzi said. 

"Now is not the time to return to the middle ages," Rozzi said. "Acknowledge this is not the way we function. Rendering a verdict of guilty would be endorsing this behavior." 

"We are asking you to set Allen free and give a verdict of not guilty," Rozzi said. 

The defense's closing arguments are finished. There is a lunch break until 1 p.m. Prosecuting attorney Nick McLeland will have the prosecution's rebuttal before Special Judge Frances Gull gives the jury its final instructions.

The prosecution's closing arguments lasted 58 minutes, while the defense's lasted 1 hour, 17 minutes.

The prosecution makes its closing argument

9:22 a.m. - Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland delivered the state's closing arguments. 

McLeland said Feb. 13, 2017 is a "day this community will never forgetโ€”a day Abigail Williams and Liberty German went to the trails for a walk and never came back." 

McLeland reminded the jury that the last thing Libby said to her family was "Grandma, it'll be OK." 

McLeland showed the jury a PowerPoint presentation. 

The first slide was a picture of Abby and Libby on the car ride to the trails the day they disappeared. It said the girls arrived around 1:48 p.m. 

McLeland described the search that day, saying "no one's looking for two dead bodiesโ€”they're looking for two girls." 

McLeland said that this type of thing doesn't happen in this small community. 

McLeland described the search and finding the bodies and the clothes in the creek. 

McLeland again showed the jury the gory photos of the girls' dead bodies and Libby's phone covered in "leaves and water and dirt." 

McLeland talked about the cartridge recovered from the scene. 

McLeland showed the "bridge guy" video, which he called the last moments of the girls' lives captured on Libby's phone at 2:13 p.m. 

McLeland said it "shows the moment Abby and Libby were kidnapped. You can hear the fear in Libby's voice" and see the "fear on Abby's face." 

McLeland said "bridge guy" forced the girls down the hill. McLeland said investigators enhanced the video and showed it to the jury again. 

McLeland then went over the witness testimony about "bridge guy."

McLeland said that witness testimony put Allen's car in the lot. 

McLeland said the phone data showed the girls moving on the bridge at 2:13 p.m. as the "bridge guy" video was taken. McLeland says movement of the phone stops in the health app at 2:32 p.m. 

 McLeland drew a map showing where various witnesses were in relation to Abby and Libby on the trail and where they reported seeing "bridge guy." 

McLeland said they know "bridge guy" is the guy in the video who kidnapped and killed Abby and Libby. 

"So if we can determine who 'bridge guy' is," McLeland said, 'we can determine who killed Abby and Libby and who is guilty of felony murder." 

McLeland said the volunteer file clerk saw the tip box from 2017 in 2022. 

McLeland answered a jury question that Allen had the only 2016 Black Ford Focus registered in Carroll County in 2017. 

McLeland said that car can be seen in video at the Hoosier Harvest store at 1:27 p.m. 

McLeland said that Allen confirmed he was wearing the same clothes as "bridge guy" and was on the Monon High Bridge that day. McLeland said that Allen changed his timeframe by a few hours between his initial interview in 2017 and when police interviewed him five years later. 

McLeland said Allen got more angry during the interview and would not let police search his phone and house. 

McLeland said the search warrant found the car and a Carhartt jacket. 

"Surprise, surprise," McLeland said, "the same jacket as 'bridge guy' was wearing." 

McLeland said Allen had the same brand and caliber of bullet in his home as was found at the scene. 

McLeland said that two months after the murders, Allen Googled: 

"Delphi IN news"

"Should I die now"

"Die now?" 

"Should I die now?" 

"Should I die now?" 

McLeland said the Indiana State Police testing on the gun matched the cartridge found at the scene. McLeland said that was verified three times by the boss of the lab technician, who is the president of a national organization. 

"See how the pieces are starting to fall into place," McLeland said. 

McLeland said that Allen had no explanation for why his bullet was at the scene. 

McLeland said Allen used his gun to get power over the girls. 

McLeland brought up Allen's second interview with his wife. 

"You saw how he tried to manipulate her," McLeland said. 

McLeland said Allen got angrier and was arrested and sent to Westville. 

"That could have been all we had to present to you, but it's not," McLeland said, because Allen started to confess. 

McLeland played a recorded call of Allen confessing to his wife, Kathy. 

"I did it," Allen said. "I killed Abby and Libby." 

"No you didn't," Kathy said. 

"Yes I did," Allen said. 

"Why would you say that?" Kathy said. 

"Because maybe I did," Allen said. "I think I did." 

"I think I did," Allen repeated.

"Why would you say that?" Kathy asked again. 

"Because I think I did," Allen said. 

"No you didn't," Kathy said, crying. "They're screwing with you to get you to say things." 

McLeland said Allen made the confessions "Unprovoked, unpressured, of his own free will." 

McLeland then brought up the letter Allen wrote to the warden saying he was ready to confess. 

McLeland talked about the confession to Allen's psychologist, Dr. Monica Wala. McLeland said Allen told Wala he made sure the girls were dead because he didn't want them to suffer. Allen told Wala he didn't think he sexually assaulted the girls but didn't remember. 

McLeland said Allen was not behaving strangely or suffering from psychosis when he made that confession. 

McLeland brought up the multiple reports from guards that Allen had confessed. The guards reported Allen said he stole a box cutter to commit the killing sand discarded it at the CVS where he worked. 

McLeland brought up Allen's more detailed confession to Wala, where he said he was scared by a van. McLeland said Allen told Wala he kept living his life because he hadn't been caught. 

McLeland then played another confession call, this one to his mom. 

"So did Kathy tell you I did it?" Allen asked. 

"We're not going to discuss this, OK?" Allen's mother said. "You know we love you, don't you?" 

"Regardless," Allen asked. 

"I just know you don't have it in you to do something like that," Allen's mother said. 

"Mom, I wouldn't sit here and tell you I did it if I didn't," Allen said. 

"Saying you did it doesn't mean you did," Allen's mother said. 

"It does when I did it," Allen said. 

McLeland said that Allen's phone call was unprovoked and of his own free will. McLeland said it shows Allen is not suffering from psychosis, and that he trusts Wala and talked to her every day. 

McLeland said Allen continued to make confession calls even after he was moved to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. 

McLeland said that Brian Harshman listened to more than 700 calls and reviewed Allen's confessions. McLeland said that Harshman followed up on Allen's statement about a van and found out that Brad Weber was driving his van home that day. 

"Something only the killer would know," McLeland said. 

McLeland said there was no doubt in Harshman's mind that the voice in the "bridge guy" video was Allen. 

"Now all the pieces are clear," McLeland said. "All the pieces are together. Richard Allen is the 'bridge guy.' He kidnapped them and later murdered them. He slit their throats. He stole the youth and life away from Abby and Libby." 

McLeland again summarized the events of Feb. 13, 2017. 

McLeland said that as Libby clung to life and grabbed her throat, she began to cry. He said that then, Allen killed Abby. 

McLeland said that Allen lived in the community for five years but didn't realize he left behind a cartridge from his gun. McLeland said that Allen then confessed over and over about what he did and how he did it, with details only the killer would know. 

McLeland asked the jurors to find Allen guilty on all four counts. 

The jury is given final instructions

9:12 a.m. - The jury has been given their final instructions. 

Judge Frances Gull told the jury they are the judges of law and facts. 

"You must consider the facts," Gull said. 

The jury will decide on: 

  • Count One - Felony murder for the killing of Abigail Williams while attempting to commit kidnapping
  • Count Two - Felony murder for the killing of Liberty German while attempting to commit kidnapping
  • Count Three - Murder for knowingly killing Abigail Williams
  • Count Four - Murder for knowingly killing Liberty German

Gull told the jury the state must prove each element of each crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." 

Gull told the jury that "intentionally or knowingly" would mean the suspect had the conscious objective to commit the crime. 

Gull also defined facts, inferences and direct evidence. 

Gull said the fact Allen chose not to testify cannot be considered. 

9 a.m. - Closing arguments are expected to begin. Special Judge Frances Gull is giving both the prosecution and defense two and a half hours to conclude their case to the jury.

Jurors will then get instructions from the judge before deliberation begins.

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