DELPHI, Ind. — It's been more than seven years since the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were found near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Richard Allen, the man accused of killing the two teenagers, will stand trial for the eighth day Saturday.
The trial began Friday, Oct. 18.
Sixteen Allen County residents were selected to serve on the jury. Twelve of those people (eight women and four men) began the trial as jurors with four (two men and two women) serving as alternates.
From opening statements to verdict, 13News will be at the Carroll County courthouse every day of the trial to explain what happened inside the courtroom.
Follow along with the latest updates from Saturday below:
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State's 25th witness, Indiana State Police Lieutenant Jerry Holeman, returns to the stand
9 a.m. - Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman returned Saturday morning to testify.
Holeman explained the technique for conducting interviews for "someone with a mental illness," which includes building rapport, presenting evidence, overexaggerating, lying about the evidence and reading their body language.
Holeman said Richard Allen became agitated when Holeman was interviewing him on Oct. 26, 2022. Holeman said he did not plan on arresting Allen that day.
Holeman said at one point, Allen told him, "I'm not going to tell you something I didn't do. I don't care what you do to me. I'm not going to tell you I did something I didn't do."
As an interview technique, Holeman said he lied to Allen about experts saying the voice recorded on Libby's cellphone was his.
Holeman said Allen told him that he suffers from depression and anxiety. However, Holeman said he didn't notice any behavior related to mental illness.
Holeman said Allen denied having a gun that day on the trail, ever knowing Abby Williams and Libby German, or having any involvement in their death.
Holeman said Allen asked him, "What kind of good person would kill two girls?"
Holeman testified Saturday morning that through his training, he noticed some signs of deception from Allen in the Oct. 26, 2022 interview. "Nothing obvious, very subtle," Holeman said, noting Allen was touching his own face, looking down.
During the Oct. 26, 2022 interview, Holeman said he told Allen that they had a report from the lab that the gun they recovered with the search warrant matched the round found at the crime scene. Holeman said Allen denied this but didn't explain more.
Holeman said Richard Allen's wife, Kathy Allen, was there for the interview, and she allegedly told Allen, "All you have to do is ask for a lawyer, and they will let you go."
According to Holeman, Allen responded to his wife, "Don't worry about me."
Holeman said after the interview, he believed they had enough evidence to arrest Allen.
Holeman said Allen told him, "Take all your evidence and just arrest me."
During cross-examination, defense attorney Andrew Baldwin asked Holeman why a part of the video – where Holeman allegedly read Allen his Miranda rights – was missing, which Holeman responded, that there were a lot of "technical difficulties."
Baldwin asked Holeman if he told Allen the death penalty was on the table during that interview, to which Holeman responded, "I did."
Baldwin asked Holeman if in the two weeks between interviews with Allen, from Oct. 13 to Oct. 26, 2022, he sent the cartridge and gun to the lab for testing. Holeman said they did not.
Regarding Holeman's previous statement that at one point during questioning Allen said, "It's over," Baldwin asked Holeman if he recorded that. Holeman said no.
Baldwin asked Holeman if he finds witness Betsy Blair to be credible, to which Holeman said he does. When asked if he knows whose car Blair described to police, Holeman said no.
Baldwin also asked Holeman if he believes one person committed the crime. Holeman responded that he believes that now, but that at some point, he thought there may have been more. Baldwin asked Holeman if he believes one person in an hour or so abducted the girls, killed them and undressed them. Holeman responded, "without a doubt."
Baldwin at one point said there was an opportunity for law enforcement to get an approximate height of "bridge guy" for a cost of $10,000. Holeman responded that they tried to estimate a height and weren't concerned about the money, but the accuracy.
Baldwin asked Holeman if any DNA was found in Allen's home or car connecting to the crime scene. Holeman said he didn't believe so.
When asked by Baldwin if mistakes have been made in the case, Holeman responded, "There's been mistakes made, yes."
Baldwin asked Holeman if he thinks the killer heard people on the bridge from the search party, killed the girls and left. "I believe he may have heard someone," Holeman said. "Before he killed them, after, I don't know."
Holeman said yes when asked if he thought the killer would have been gone by 3:57 p.m.
"You don't know who said, 'down the hill,'" Baldwin said at one point.
Baldwin said to Holeman that Holeman can't rule out if Libby's phone left the scene or not, to which Holeman responded, "I think we can rule that out."
Prosecutor Nick McLeland asked if there were any indications Libby's phone moved again after it stopped moving at 2:32 p.m. "Absolutely not," Holeman responded.
McLeland asked Holeman if when Holeman told Allen others saw him on the trail, was that a lie. Holeman said no.
The jury asked if there was a way to get to where the girls were without crossing the bridge. "Not an approved way," Holeman responded.
Next week, the jury will see two videos of Richard Allen being questioned by police on Oct. 13, 2022, and Oct. 26, 2022.
5:45 a.m. - The eighth day of the trial is expected to begin at 9 a.m. Check back for updates.