BARDSTOWN, Ky. — One of the three men charged in the death of Crystal Rogers will be in court again Thursday morning.
Steve Lawson is charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence in the Bardstown mother’s 2015 disappearance.
The hearing will be focused on Lawson’s motion to dismiss those charges. His attorney, Ted Lavit, has argued for months that Lawson was given immunity in exchange for his cooperation with authorities.
According to court documents, prosecutors have no intention of dropping the charges, but instead will exclude certain conversations where immunity was mentioned.
Two other men are charged in her death including Lawson’s son, Joseph, and Rogers ex-boyfriend Brooks Houck. Neither of them will be in court Thursday.
Lawson’s hearing is expected to begin around 9 a.m. Refresh this blog for frequent updates throughout the day.
Court Blog
10:09 a.m.
Judge Simms will review the evidence heard in court and make a final decision on what evidence can be kept and the motion to dismiss Lawson's charges soon. Court is finished.
10:07 a.m.
Judge questions Lavit about his objection to combining the cases. Says there inconsistencies because the objection wants some of the testimony to not be included but he plans to also use it.
10:03 a.m.
Attorneys now discussing what testimony will and won't be used in trial.
10:02 a.m.
"We did everything the Commonwealth was asking for," Lavit says. "It led to the charges against Brooks Houck and Joey Lawson."
10:00 a.m.
The hearing has reached the hour mark.
Lavit said phone calls in the jail with Lawson's ex-wife were not contradicting his testimony.
"It was all consistent," he argues.
9:59 a.m.
Lavit said he was there when Lawson told authorities about the phone call was just about finding an apartment.
Young interjects, says there is a "game of charades" between Lawson and Houck that's been going on for the past years. He said Lawson testified to a grand jury that it was about informing Houck "the job was done."
"What are we doing here?" Young questions.
"Going in circles," Simms said.
9:53 a.m.
"We assert that he told the truth in all four cases," Lavit said.
He said Steve Lawson did some jobs for Houck occasionally, but was never an employee.
Lavit adds that Lawson did not take the bobcat or use it either.
"To say he lied and broke the agreement is not how the law looks at it," he said.
9:51 a.m.
"Our agreement was 100% truthfulness and no omissions, which I think in those four examples you see that the defendant was not truthful," Young argues.
The prosecution rests and Lavit begins his response.
9:50 a.m.
Young claims Lawson also deleted 24 phone calls between him and Houck from May and June, which Houck had also deleted. He presents the phone records to Lavit and the judge.
9:49 a.m.
Young gives the judge a transcript of an unrecorded interview with Lawson, which Lavit reportedly has also been made aware of. In it, Young said Lawson the bobcat was being used on Thompson Hill Road around July 4, 2015.
He said "they were burning and digging," adding that there is only one skid steer, or bobcat.
In another conversation, Young shows a clip where Lawson was questioned about his work with Brooks Houck. Lawson tells police he wouldn't do any work with him, outside of saying "hi" in passing.
9:44 a.m.
One more clip from that interview is played, this time when Lawson is questioned about the phone call he made to Brooks Houck around midnight over the Fourth of July weekend. Initially, he said he was questioning about an apartment and Houck says Crystal is asleep.
Young said that story has many different iterations over the years.
Lawson tells investigators he hasn't seen the bobcat in five years.
9:42 a.m.
Another clips is played where detectives discuss the use of a bobcat, also referred to as a skid steer, which Young believes was to be used in the crime.
In the same interview, another clip is played, Lawson said the bobcat was left under a tree, but when he went to get it again, Joseph had stolen it.
9:41 a.m.
Another interview with KSP on Sept. 22 is played, again about discussions about what Lawson knew about Crystal's car being taken to the the Bluegrass. Lawson now says that he had no idea about the plan.
"He stated he did not know Joseph Lawson was taking the car to the Bluegrass," Young argues. He said prosecutors are trying to determine who was involved and in what sequence.
9:40 a.m.
Young said prosecutors were asking Lawson's knowledge of whether Crystal's car was being taken to the Bluegrass Parkway on June 19, 2023.
"What was the plan to do with the car?" someone asks.
Young said Lawson acknowledges he knew it was going to the Bluegrass Parkway.
9:37 a.m.
"Why was Tammy on the Bluegrass?" a detective questions Lawson.
"She wasn't on the Bluegrass with us," Lawsons responds, repeating he would be able to recall if his wife was there with him.
9:35 a.m.
Young said Lawson was asked whether Lawson's ex-wife was with him on the Bluegrass Parkway when he was there with Joseph Lawson as Crystal's car was allegedly being moved.
Young said Lawson's ex-wife has knowledge of what happened and believe she was involved in the crime, but she passed away a few years ago.
Another clip from a police interrogation where Lawson is questioned about his ex-wife's role. Ted Lavit moves closer to the television screen.
9:33 a.m.
Lawson tells another person on the phone he messed his deal up.
The second clip from when he's being transported is played. Both audios were difficult to clearly make out in the courtroom, but Young begins to explain both clips to the judge.
9:31 a.m.
The first clip is an audio recording from the jail, which is monitored and recorded.
9:30 a.m.
Prosecution is expected to play portions of video.
First video is Lawson's call from the jail and the conversation with detectives while being transported.
9:28 a.m.
Lavit said there were many smoke breaks in the police interrogations, implying there were many distractions.
"Did he tell the truth?" Simms presses.
"When I was there, he told the truth," Lavit said. "When I read the discovery they sent me. I think he was trying to tell the truth. That needs to be examined by the court."
Judge Simms raises his voice, says "I want to get to the hearing, I don't want to keep talking."
9:26 a.m.
Young said Lawson told someone over a jail call that he "lied and messed up his deal."
He said the immunity was a blanket immunity on June 8, and on June 12 it was immunity as long as Lawson didn't kill or hurt Rogers.
"We have examples when he's saying the exact opposite of what he said in a previous interview," Young argues.
9:23 a.m.
Lavit calls the oral agreement between prosecutors and Lawson an "inartful and informal agreement between the parties." He reads the conditions of Lawson's immunity.
"The whole basis of this agreement was that Lawson told the whole truth," Young tells the judge. "Lavit needs to tell us what statements were truthful."
Young said the problem with Lawson's testimonies was that he was minimizing his role.
"He told us he was involved in the helping of the eventual murder of Crystal Rogers," Young said, but said Lawson was telling the truth in some statements. He said they have evidence and witness testimony supporting his alleged "minimized" role.
9:18 a.m.
Attorneys now discussing the history of immunity cases.
9:17 a.m.
Commonwealth attorneys say Lawson "didn't do what he was supposed to do in the agreement."
9:15 a.m.
Lavit just wants to submit the flash drive, which he hands to Judge Simms.
9:13 a.m.
Simms asks if Lavit is willing to put out any evidence, including witnesses, showing a different agreement was made.
"I think that my client agreed to be truthful, that's the extent of it," Lavit says.
9:10 a.m.
Judge Simms said he's reading what Lavit submitted in a memorandum on June 8.
"I don't see anything that's a different agreement," he said.
Simms said he has dozens of cases to look over and doesn't have time to look through all the footage on Lavit's flash drive. He said he would hope Lavit would be able to point where a different agreement was made.
"I don't have the time to go through enormous discovery," he said "It's burdensome for the court for someone to dump a bunch of interviews on them and say 'hey, go find it.'"
9:08 a.m.
"[The prosecution] can't just cherry pick one particular interview and say that was the deal," Lavit argues. Asks the court to consider everything in all the interviews to determine what the agreement was because nothing was in writing. "They had complete control."
9:05 a.m.
Young confirms there was no immunity agreement ever in writing. Only an oral agreement that Lawson was 100% truthful and no omissions in his story.
Simms asks Lavit if that's the case and he denies, saying that wasn't the understanding.
Lavit offers to give the judge a flash drive with interviews of those conversations and a record of when those interviews occurred.
9:03 a.m.
Court has started. Judge Charles Simms is hearing the motion to dismiss Lawson's charges. He said he has listened to recordings provided by prosecutors, including a jail conversation between Lawson and his ex-wife.
8:58 a.m.
Steve Lawson has entered the courtroom joined by his attorney, Ted Lavit. Special Prosecutor Shane Young and prosecutors are also seated.
8:54 a.m.
The media and family have been let into the NElson County courtroom for Steve Lawson's hearing. Crystal's family, including her mother Sherry Ballard and grandparents, are seated in the front rows.
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